This is a long journey; buckle up and try to relax

Triggered by a comment from one of our readers, ಪ್ರಸಾದ್.ಪ್ರೀತಿ, on our post on Macaulay, we felt there's a need to try and explain "the process" we follow here at KARNATIQUE. So here it is, originally intended to be a reply to ಪ್ರಸಾದ್.ಪ್ರೀತಿ:
KARNATIQUE is a long journey. If you hop in and hop off between two stations, you don't get the whole story. You need to do undertake the whole journey with patience.

We have commented on the Congress here and the third front here.

It is not our job to present the viewpoints of all political parties w.r.t. all issues. The sum total of all the different ideologies "in the market" has left the Kannadiga confused w.r.t. his own identity and the path for his own success, Karnataka's success, and India's success. We will strive to remove every such covering of ignorance and clear his/her vision irrespective of the source of that ignorance.

In doing so, it is inevitable that the political biases of "commoner" readers (to borrow your word) as well as their perception of BANAVASI BALAGA go on a roller-coaster ride, swinging this way once and that way once. It is also inevitable that some "non-commoner" readers with preconceived notions about us and/or strong belief-based leanings towards other schools of thought perceive us as simply trying to argue against their pet theories or schools of thought.

On our journey, we can neither afford to nor deem it necessary to be "politically correct" in trying to balance out viewpoints of all the different ideologies and political parties. We don't care who you vote for, since we don't see any of the political parties having what it takes to put back Karnataka on track.

We know we are running a risk in this approach, but we are willing to take it in order to reach out to those Kannadigas who have the courage to examine everything scientifically, analytically, can think with an open mind, and who have the ability to put Karnataka back on track.

Coming back to this post itself - it is amply clear that the whole image of Macaulay as a 100% villain is due to the RSS/BJP. As I replied to "victimofprejudice", this does not mean that we agree with everything Jean Dreze says. In fact, there is a lot of merit in victimofprejudice's post on Haindava Keralam, whose link can be found in his/her comment. There is a lot of merit, too, in Koenraad Elst's article - where he does not agree with Macaulay's views on Christianity as a religion superior to Hinduism. We do not agree with Macaulay there, either.

The problem with RSS/BJP thinking is - it cannot admit agreement or disagreement on an issue-by-issue basis. In their way of thinking (which is hardly a way of thinking - it's more a way of believing) Macaulay can't be right about one thing and wrong about another. That's a big mistake.

We're more than happy if you can provide any evidence of any Congress (or any other political party's or ideology's) comments on the issue of the alleged statement of Macaulay. We will comment on those, too, if there's enough intellectual grub in it, and if we believe there is something for us Kannadigas to learn from those - either by way of agreeing or disagreeing, in part or in full.
-- editor, KARNATIQUE

3 comments:

ಪ್ರಸಾದ್.ಪ್ರೀತಿ said...

thanks for the much needed detailed explanation. I do agree hopping on & off doesnt picturise the entire journey & I whole heartedly support Karnatique to be an endless journey bringing out issues which would lead to well being of kannadigas. However each station should have pointers to help those people who want to know where they stand, at each Karnatique station. like you have pointed out "here" when directing towards congress & the third front.
I clearly understand that Karnatique being an organization whose sole interest lies in the well being of kannadigas need not be the bandwagon for some political party,it would be absurd even to think like that. However, when a "product" is being reviewed publically it should target various types of consumer. A consumer has to know, how the "product being reviewed" varies from other competitors for the "same type of product". otherwise, consumer will be off track to decide which one to buy!!! and the idea of reviewing the product doesnt serve the purpose.
Anyways, I do understand we cannot claim being 100% politically correct when speaking in a public domain & criticism should be a thing to welcome and in this regard I support 95% of the issues taken up by Karnatique/Banavasi Balaga. However, this should not blind us from holding the integrity as an Indian as well. Long term impact of the concerns voiced should also be considered.
I do care whom I vote for, I do care what would happen to karnataka/India If I vote for some party!!! we have a PM who cannot win Rajyasabha elections :). Meaning even if he is not favourite among the common man, magically he will be made "Prime Sinister" what a joke on democracy.
It is not Karnataka which is going off track it is the attitude of the kannadiga!!! a lion among dogs is being brainwashed to think like a dog, this should be corrected first.
I have read the exhaustive minutes of macalauy wherein he tries to justify his stance as well as mock at the native as well.He even ridicules the worth of regional languages & taking advantage of the bastardly caste system (now prevalent in all religions hinduism,christianity, islam and the likes..) he makes fun of eternal cultural values of this land.
But certainely I do agree the mails which are circulated over the net weren't the exact phrases he used. Being the son of a missionary, his under lying scheme was to break the backbone and that would remain a truth no matter what could be assumed reading the minutes. Even today schools, colleges, hospitals for poor,likewise so many socially involved organization contributing towards the society has a scheme of converting. why they dont thrive in islamic countries is a question that no secularist doesnt want to answer.

the link for the minutes is
http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/mac.html
For a kannadiga to learn there a few quotes like..
this -- "the dialects commonly spoken among the natives of this part of India, contain neither literary nor scientific information,"
this -- "that the intellectual improvement of those classes of the people who have the means of pursuing higher studies can at present be effected only by means of some language not vernacular amongst them." (trying to undermine local language)
following quotes may not suit the taste of Karnatique but as an Indian I wouldn't take it lightly if any "foreigner" comments on ANY language of India or for that matter INDIANs
-- "I have never found one among them who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India"

-- "It is, I believe, no exaggeration to say, that all the historical information which has been collected from all the books written in the Sanscrit language is less valuable than what may be found in the most paltry abridgments used at preparatory schools in England"

-- "-History,abounding with kings thirty feet high, and reigns thirty thousand years long,--and Geography,made up of seas of treacle and seas of butter." - here he cleverly skips the part of bible which explains the detailed life of "Noah" who lived for several hundered years!!! but the same king "nooyuh maharaj" in bhavishya purana is ridiclued!!!

-- "wasting public money,for printing books which are of less value than the paper on which they are printed was while it was blank; for giving artificial encouragement to absurd history, absurd metaphysics, absurd physics, absurd theology; for raising up a breed of scholars"

like this you can dig as deep as you wish but truth always remains that he didnt have an understanding of this country, its natives & the rich culture. His intentions were basically to machinize the indians to serve them. In his own words --"We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect."

After knowing things like this, I wonder who can still vouch for so called "good intentions of macaulay"?

Jockey said...

the dialects commonly spoken among the natives of this part of India, contain neither literary nor scientific information-- this is true. Kannadigas must have the humility to accept that Kannada is dead as a doorknob when it comes to scientific information. And nobody gives a damn about literary information today or gave at the time of Macaulay. The Jnanapeetha awards work well as ornaments in a show-case, that's all.

that the intellectual improvement of those classes of the people who have the means of pursuing higher studies can at present be effected only by means of some language not vernacular amongst them.This is the impression that's running scot-free even to this day. It's untrue, but remember that Macaulay made this statement under the constraint of the fact that the British govt. couldn't reach out to the whole of India in all its languages. I don't think this is undermining local languages.

I have never found one among them who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of IndiaHe's talking not about Indians in general, but about the other bench who was arguing that Indian languages are better for the education system.

It is, I believe, no exaggeration to say, that all the historical information which has been collected from all the books written in the Sanscrit language is less valuable than what may be found in the most paltry abridgments used at preparatory schools in EnglandRemember that Macaulay was biased towards Christianity. So, in his mind, Sanscrit had only bullshit. Which is false, of course. But his statement is absolutely true when it comes to the material sciences. I don't mean Sanscrit had no material science literature at all; I only mean that Macaulay's statement about "value" compared to English is true.

History,abounding with kings thirty feet high, and reigns thirty thousand years long,--and Geography,made up of seas of treacle and seas of butter.This is obviously Macaulay the Christian speaking. Absolute bullshit.

"wasting public money,for printing books which are of less value than the paper on which they are printed was while it was blank; for giving artificial encouragement to absurd history, absurd metaphysics, absurd physics, absurd theology; for raising up a breed of scholars"We indeed had absurd physics. On the others, Macaulay was wrong.

And, here comes the thing that you need to read again and again to make sure you got it right (yes, years of RSS will have made this part of the brain numb). This is what Macaulay said, and the RSS conveniently drops the bold portion. Explain why. And read Koenraad Elst on http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/articles/hinduism/macaulay.html.

In one point I fully agree with the gentlemen to whose general views I am opposed. I feel with them, that it is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying knowledge to the great mass of the population.

Shankar said...

I think the point that Karnatique is making is that we should not conclude that Macaulay is 100% right or 100% wrong. So your point about "vouching for the good intentions" of Macaulay is not relevant here. Macaulay was right when it came to understanding the actual status of Indian languages (with the exception of Sanskrit and Arabic, which he misjudged). And Macaulay was right when it came to realizing that it is through the upliftement of Indian languages that India can be educated.

And of course, Macaulay was wrong when it came to religion, morals, racism and stuff like that.

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